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Leela: Hey man.
Gulliver: Hey Kim, thanks for having us dude.
Kim: Uh, you are very, very welcome. So can you guys share with us just a little bit about like the whole like the whole thesis of really like what the Eight Percent’s about and, you know, just tell us a little bit more about, you know, how this all came about?
Leela: Yeah cool. So the Eight Percent is really a group we’re bringing together of unique thinkers, industry trailblazers, like the people who are really looking to make the world a better place through business, industry, social change, science, the arts, like the whole bit. And it’s really about the people who are…I call them the eight percent because they tend to be the top eight percent of their field. So, the concept kind of came about…I used to work many, many years ago like 2000, like a long time ago.
Gulliver: Sixteen years ago.
Leela: Shut up.
Gulliver: You must’ve been about 16 at that…
Leela: I was like, five.
Gulliver: She was literally…
Leela: For and the Apple Store in the Sydney CBD so this isn’t the current Apple Store that’s run by Apple since back when it was all resellers. And back in those days Apple was it was for the iPhone, Steve had just come back to Apple, the blonde-haired blue-eyed Mac had just come out and we’d gone into that range of colors around the iMacs. And it was a really exciting time to be working for Apple because things were just really kind of exploding and Apple was really kind of starting to…they’d been around for a long time obviously but it was really taking off. And something we were really acutely aware of was that the market share that Apple had in the PC space was eight percent and we really took that as a sign of pride because the people who were coming into the store in Sydney were heads of graphic design firms, fashion designers, actors, comedians, like really cool people. And so it was like yeah, sure we only have eight percent of the market share, but it’s the eight percent of people who really get it, people who are different and innovative and interesting and doing really fun, cool stuff.
So eight percent has always been something in my head about that percentage of people who achieve their goals. There’s actually a university study done that showed that eight percent of people who set New Year’s resolutions achieve them. Eight percent of salespeople make like 90 percent of the sales. Eight percent of managers are highly high performing managers. So, this number if you start to do some research really comes out a lot. I think it really plays out if you think about for most of us like our own clients there’s eight percent of our clients who really do the work and get amazing results, and then everything else is various kind of shades of whatever spread out. So yeah, so that’s kind of how that eight percent came about, that’s what it’s about.
Kim: That’s awesome. I love it…I’ve got a question for you. Kind of a little bit of a sidetrack but I always get…used to get asked this question as well. Do you think that the number like they say eight percent of people really achieve that success? Over time, do you think with these more like disruptors and people going out there making these big changes, do you see that number ever increasing? I always personally said I was like, I think it’s always going to stay the same just because of the way people are, but I’d love to hear your opinion on what do you think…do you think that number will change in the future?
Leela: No, I agree with you 100 percent. It’ll never change, and…
Gulliver: She agrees with you eight percent.
Leela: I agree with you eight percent. No, it’ll never change. It never has changed when you talk to people like Dan Kennedy…I’ve done a lot of Dan’s stuff and Dan talks about those numbers and he puts your top kind of two levels of performers at about that eight percent mark as well. And he’s been doing this for 40 years. Like, the numbers haven’t changed. The numbers won’t change. I think when people ask that it’s because when you’re in a mastermind or when you’re…when you kind if move into entrepreneurship and you choose to surround yourself with a bunch of people who are on the same mission, you get a little bit of a skewed view of the human race and of what people are like. You have to remember that we’re still very rare, those of us who are doing this work and building businesses and creating that stuff. Like, it’s still a very…it’s a rare thing to do. So it’s still a very small amount of the population even if you look around your own circle and go, well out of the 30 people in my circle like 25 of them are doing really well, yeah. But you know when you blow that out to the entire population of the world, then that eight percent number is going to stand.
Kim: Awesome, yeah that’s cool. Definitely the same viewpoint as me. And now like do you think like for example someone’s listening to this and they’re going like, “I think I’m a eight percenter.” Like, what are the characteristics of someone who is, what you would classify as someone who’s a eight percenter?
Leela: Cool, so there’s three main values that all of the eight percent share. The first one is a commitment to excellence. So that doesn’t have to mean…I mean, for your sort of top eight percent of your field it doesn’t have to necessarily mean that you’re the best. It means that…my definition of excellence is being willing to improve incrementally over a long period of time. Because your eight percent work, or what I call your rate work, is not something that you’re gonna do for a year and then next year you’re doing something different. Because it’s your mission, your destiny. It’s what you’re supposed to be doing with your life and so you take a long term view of it. You’re not gonna retire from it ever. You will be doing it in 40 or 50 years. So that commitment to excellence thing, you know, small improvements every day. Being willing to do the hard yards, the incremental improvements that other people find too difficult. That full commitment to excellence.
The second one would be obsession with creativity and innovation. And like distinction between creativity and innovation is that creativity is ideas, innovation is implementation of those ideas. So, they’re the same thing just like one’s the idea and one’s the action, putting it into action. A business as we know has gotta be put into action otherwise all the creativity in the world is amazing but if you’re not innovating at the same time then you have real problems. So all of the eight percent are doing things differently. They’re looking for new and different ways to express that…those levels of excellence in the kind of work that they’re doing and they’re always looking for new ways to be better. And then the final one is courage. I think that value’s really important because it takes… Obviously you’re part of the eight percent then you’re not like 92 percent of people. And it takes a great deal of courage to be willing to stand out from the crowd and set yourself apart, and not do what 92 percent of people in your industry are doing and being willing to have people not like you because you’re being different or doing things that…that are different to them and you know that you’re really willing to have the courage and stand up and say no this is the way I’m going to do things.
Kim: Awesome. Love it. I love those three distinctions there. Now, I just wanted to share like a little bit on this call obviously not just for you guys but for the people listening, um, around why I wanna…well there’s something really cool coming up which I will get you guys to share more about in a second, but the reason why I really was attracted to Eight Percent and everything that’s coming up with it all and everything like that is because even in my business being marketing, which can sometimes get like stuck and it suffers from sometimes not a bunch of innovation, I was…I’ve been looking at always wanting to kind of combine things that I love together, to get creative with it and I’ve just never been quite knew why. And I remember when at an event with Leela and Gulliver and I think someone mentioned something and Gulliver was like, “Why don’t you just do cool shit, do the shit you want, combined with whatever it is your core businesses as well.” And I was like wow, that, like, why did I not think of that before, you know? And that’s why you go to events because you have those little…those little nuggets. And then I wanted to put together, you know, my martial arts and marketing cause that’s two things I’m really passionate about and enjoy. And then we did that and it was amazing, had it super fine and it was just like, “Wow, I wanna be able to do more of this,” which is why, you know, the festival that’s coming up and things like that have really attracted me to kind of get more of those ideas because even on top of that, my cousin is up in…I don’t think I told you guys but my cousin’s up and coming like Aussie Hip Hop star so he’s written me a Aussie Hip Hip song to go along with my dojo promo video.
So now we’ve got like this killer little one minute 30 Aussie Hip Hop slash martial arts marketing tune to go with that which is just, you know, I’m just so happy with that. It’s so good. Can’t wait to release that soon as well. But can you guys tell us more like obviously because I mean for me in being in a field obviously that has…that’s where I get my creativity and innovation combining, but there’s something pretty cool coming up where people can sink their teeth more into it. So can you guys tell us a bit about the upcoming Eight Percent festival which is coming up pretty soon?
Gulliver: Yeah cool. So, the festival’s coming up on the 10th, 11th and 12th of October and it will be down in the cosmopolitan city of Melbourne. And we are super looking forward to hosting buys there. I can’t wait to get your crew over. The festival’s really gonna be…like we were talking about before around those values of the eight percent. And the way that’s gonna be laid out is really, you know, to be inspiring and thought-provoking and to really get your juices pumping. So like you were talking about before when you’re at that mastermind event and we had the idea for dojo and then you put it together and now you’re bringing music into it, you’re bringing all the things that you’re passionate together into it and it’s all starting to rock, that’s exactly the kind of thing. But plus also obviously we’re talking a lot about how we can change and disrupt industries, how we can innovate the change and disrupt, how we can have the courage to disrupt and how we can actually be excellent in those areas.
Leela: Yeah, can I make a quick point about disruption? I think these days when people talk about disruption all they think about is tech. That all they think…all they think about is like building an app is disruption. And tech can be disruptive absolutely, tech can be disruptive. But disrupting industries is not necessarily about bringing in new tech. It can be about… It, it’s just…it…disruption literally like look at the word, look at the meaning of the word, although I think it’s lost a lot of meaning over the last few years. Disruption is about doing things differently from everybody else which is exactly what the eight percent do. They do things in the opposite way to the rest of their industry. So, I just, yeah. You can continue but I just wanted to make a point about that, about disruption because I think people get in their head when you talk about disruption that you mean tech. And it can be, but not necessarily.
Gulliver: Yeah, and I think that’s really important because if you look at our company ten years ago when we came into the Internet marketing and seminar space, we were very much about…well, everyone was… everyone was selling market and never have to sell yourself again. Everyone was really selling sales fear, and Leela and I came with this big strapping street fighting pragmatic kind of approach of, “Hey, you’re actually gonna have to add value and sell people, and here’s how to build your information product and here’s how to get leads. But here is how to close sales, and here is how to be okay with that as a person.” And we really became the black sheep very quickly. People laughed at us because we were disruptive. We were selling against the entire industry.
Now, ten years later we are where we are because we did what everybody else wasn’t doing. From a business point of view, that’s golden. Yeah? You don’t go into an industry as, Richard Branson said, looking to make a lot of money. You go into an industry looking where people aren’t being served. So too, when we ended up on the island at Necar invited to speak with Richard Branson and the rest of the people from Disrupt for Good, what he said was, “Hey, you know if you want to…if you want to disrupt the world for good, if you want to effect social change, if you want to, you know, not only be successful in your business and make money and help people but also help those less advantaged, you need to look at what frustrates you the most and what pisses you off the most and what the injustices of the world are that you wanna go after.” So, it’s been a massive lesson for us not just to be good at making money and be great in business and be good at helping people in business and marketing and sales, but now also to be helping people create social enterprises, create, you know, create a different in the world from the great privilege that we have as entrepreneurs and as high-level earners as the eight percent, to be able to use that for good, for a powerful good, for a force for good.
So a lot of what we’re talking about in the festival will be around that and thinking differently, being differently, doing differently, and for the betterment of all. So, if you look at the keynotes there’s gonna be some keynote speeches on a daily basis and we have some incredible, inspiring stories from musicians, people in martial arts, people in the media, people like all kinds of different people who’ve come from all kinds of backgrounds. If you look at the speakers, they’re all very, very unique personalities and very different and they’re all gonna inspire change and make you think about the amount of good you can do, the amount of privilege you have, the amount of power you have to affect the world and to take your great work, your eight percent work out there and use it to make good in the world. And then, during the day we’re gonna have a lot of very interactive and topical discussions on what can we change. What industries, what parts of the world, what parts of society can we change. What would it look like?
So there’ll be a lot of discussion panels, think tanks, around topics that are innovating. Art, business, commerce, all of that sort of stuff. So very much about getting your creative innovative juices flowing and getting you to think differently because those people that think differently and do differently than the rest of their industries are the ones who create incredible change. If you look at Henry Ford, was purported to have said if he’d asked his customers what they wanted, they would have asked for faster horses. If you look at business, people like Henry Ford, people like, you know, Elon Musk, people like Steve Jobs, people like Leela, who do differently, get different results. Even in your own business, Kian, like, you’ve done differently, you’ve done something amazing and different and you stand out from all the other marketers because you’re doing something immersive and experiential that combines all the bits about you that make you you, and you’ve gone and launched your own social business within your stuff as well.
Like, that is what brings the joy back and the meaning back into business and into making money. Because money’s awesome, and then when you’ve got it it’s like I’m doing really well now but what more can I do? And that’s the thing that all the billionaires and the millionaires on Richard Branson’s island had in common. They’re all like, “Well, I’ve got billions of dollars. How can I be a force for good? How can I have a mission bigger than myself? How can I challenge myself to do more and be more and help more, and make the world a better place so that I leave it a better place than I came into it?” So that’s really the guts of what the festival’s gonna be about. There’s also gonna be some breakout groups and there’s also gonna be some other special things if you’re involved in the festival that I’m not quite sure what the agenda is for those at the moment though because that’s more Leela and the girls are across that.
Leela: Lots of things.
Kim: Lots of cool stuff coming up.
Gulliver: We couldn’t…Yeah so um, so yeah really heaps of stuff.
Kim: Yeah. I think it’s good, I think it’s a very good point you made there. And I think that as well what some people I find that they kind of forget or put on the fence as they go, “Oh, I don’t know exactly what it is that I wanna do in that space so I kind of won’t focus on it for now.” But it’s like, well, if you don’t focus on it how are you ever going to come to the realization of what it is that you’re doing. Because I’m sure that, you know like in…I heard a little bit of the backstory of you know when Leela was focusing on it, she didn’t just decide, “I’m just going to do this now, I’m going to start Eight Percenters.” It’s kind of been a culmination of stuff. Would I be correct in saying that, Leela?
Leela: Yeah, absolutely. It’s a culmination of 37 years of trying to figure out what the hell I wanted to do with my life. And you know, ten years ago I started our core business, our marketing and sales business, and you know it’s just been, “Let’s grow that and grow that and grow that while I figure out what I wanna do.” Because I always figured I’d be a hell of a lot better off figuring out what I wanted to do having a multi-million-dollar business than I would doing it and suddenly having the realization if I had, like, no money to back it up. Which, you know, has proven to be a very smart move. [inaudible 00:17:20] job.
Gulliver: I was on the phone before to a guy who runs several eight figure businesses and he’s coming down to the festival and he said to me, “You know, look this event just isn’t me.” And I said, “What do you mean?” He goes, “Well, it’s not where I’ve been. Like, I’ve been really focused on the big eight, and see I’ve been really focused on the tech startup, I’ve been really focused on the big money, I’ve been, you know, take it from 100,000 to 500,000 to a million to ten million and I’ve done that and done that and done that and done that and done that. And I sort of burned out in the last year and then realized there wasn’t enough me within my life for all of these venture capitalists and people who funded me and all of this shit. And I realized that i need to go back to being me and figure out who the hell that is, and what I really wanna do in the world because I’m getting into my 40s and I’m…I’ve made a lot of money but it’s…the bills get bigger, the stress gets bigger, with the freedoms, but what does it really all mean?” And…
Leela: That is what I call the million-dollar meltdown. That person’s obviously had it at multi-millions, but that’s really, that’s what the million-dollar meltdown looks like. Is that okay? And for most people it kicks in for the first time at about 800,000, and then it’ll kick in again over and over and over again until you finally figure it out and get the message, which is that making money is great and I am very pro-money. Make all of the money, go forth and make the money. If you don’t know what you with your life, the next best thing you can do is make some money. But at some point the money isn’t enough, and there’s gotta be something beyond…there’s kind of a hierarchy of great work, like we all start off with enough money for me to pay the bills.
Leela: Then we go into enough money for my family to be able to have the life that they want, you know, send their kids to good schools, go on family holidays, buy a nice house in a nice area, that kind of stuff. You hit that point at about 400 grand. You’ve got all of that, then it’s like, “Okay, now what?” And so typically the next thing people go into is they look at supporting people who are like them. So you see a lot of like, “empowering women” stuff out there and it’s typically…nothing wrong with that, but it’s typically middle class women empowering other middle class women. And it’s just that next step, it’s like when they think of community they think of people who are like me. And then the step beyond that, the great work step, is to move into a space of really thinking locally and like, right, what can I do now? And this is where it needs to kick in after that kind of 800k mark is like…is…okay, what can I do now on a planetary basis now I have the money and I have the influence and I have the contacts and the business, what can I do now on a larger scale to…to change the world and to do great things and to leave a real lasting legacy beyond just helping my family. And that’s the only way out of that million-dollar meltdown is to realize that there are bigger things beyond you and your family and people who are just exactly like you.
Gulliver: I think that’s something that we really realized when we were on Neca with Richard. It was like, you know, you had these guys thinking and there was this guy called Anthony Ray Hinton who’s like been in prison for the last 30 years on death row, and he was convicted…proven to have been convicted unlawfully. Like he was innocent. The police knew this from the very start. They knew the bullets didn’t match the gun. But because he was a African-American man living in a Southern state in America the…you know, whether it was a Sheriff or the prosecutor that wanted to get re-elected that year, he ended up in jail. And he stayed there for a long time, and lost family members and couldn’t get out and go to their funerals, and couldn’t feel the rain on his face or the wind on his cheeks, and you know, listening to other dudes being executed and stuff, and all that trauma. And you just realize that, you know, if you’re a middle-class person living in Australia, you have so much power, so much privilege to effect good in the world that you don’t even realize you’ve got.
You don’t…you don’t go to bed at night worrying about, you know, the sort of things that some people in the world have to go to bed worrying about. You don’t get pulled over by police and shot at, you don’t…this…this doesn’t happen in my life. You know, no-one’s…no-one’s pulling me over because I’m a middle class white guy who makes several million dollars a year. You know, except maybe for my autograph or whatever. So it made me realize the depth of my privilege, the depth of just how easy I had it, and how much good there was that we could do and that’s another big part of it I guess, you know? Because otherwise you’re just, “I’m gonna make ten thousand million dollars more.” And you know there’s nothing wrong with money but…
Leela: Yeah, love money.
Gulliver: Money’s awesome, but…
Leela: We’re pro getting money, but at some point it really does…it always hits the point for everybody where it just…it stops being enough, and most high achievers’ first instinct when that happens is to set a bigger financial goal. “Ah, I’ll just make more money.” But there’s a reason that the million dollars doesn’t make you happy, and it’s the same reason that $20 million won’t make you happy. But there’s a lot that you can do with that money that will make you and other people happy and really fulfill you.
Kim: Yeah, definitely. And I think it’s like yeah, I’m 100% on board everything you guys say. It’s sort of good to hear it and I think it’s great that there’s now something that…and I’m not sure about other countries, but there hasn’t been that I’ve been aware of anywhere something you know like this coming up in Australia for people to be able to go to. And it’s…and for all…it’s not like it’s something that you’ve gotta pay $60,000 to attend which I think is even better because I think sometimes people go, “Well, that sounds great but you know that’s kind of out of my…out of my reach.” Or, you know like, “Eventually one day I’ll be able to do it.” It’s like, well, you guys have made it so great and obviously you guys have hooked me up a special for all my listeners and stuff as well which is awesome, all the people in the way of clients. So I just… yeah I really appreciate you making it easy and attainable for people and obviously I think that probably ties back into your mission of what you wanna do with it as well which is, yeah, really cool. Is there anything else that you guys like if someone was on the fence thinking it’s like, “I’m pretty interested but, you know like uh I’m still weighing up,” is there anything that you would say as like a final statement that would you know just like push them across the line to go, “Yep, okay, I’m definitely gonna be there.” If there was just one point you could say?
Gulliver: I think like, you know, the sort of distinction that we’re going to be sharing in the room, and not just us, but you know, we’re not really the rock stars for this one. But the kind of people that we brought in you know, these are people who, you know, we’re paying like $30,000 for some of these guys to come out and speak. They’re really kind of amazing, successful, incredible people. It’s the stories, the distinctions that they’ll be sharing are worth a lot more than what you’re paying to drag your arse to the event. And the ticket price is ridiculous. And you know, Kian, you’ve obviously been inside our stuff and you’ve paid a lot more for the kind of knowledge they’re going to be getting over those three days than, than most people…most people spend on their business education this year. So you know you’ve certainly made that, made that sacrifice and you know invested in yourself and gotten the results from it.
So if you know if you look up to Kim, and you see him investing in himself and growing his business and helping people, tackling the world and doing incredible shit, the people that he’s hanging out with like us, you know, we haven’t worked for him, we haven’t made Kian what he is. He has and his hard work has. But he’s gotten it because he’s surrounded himself with cool people that make him think differently. You know, and I think of the same thing for Leela and I when… When we got the invitation to attend the Disrupt for Good on Necar island, it came with a very significant price tag. I think it was like $25,000 U.S. per head to donate to the charity to be part of it. And Leela said, “Look, do you wanna go to this?” And I said, “Jesus, that’s a lot of money.” It’s about 75 grand Australian at the time, plus taking two weeks out of my business which is you know about $100,000 worth of sales I’m putting on the line. Plus, you know, all the air fares and travel and accommodations.
It’s a lot of money, like, it worked out to about $140,000 it cost us in the end. And I…and I said to Leela, “Look, I…I…I…I have to keep growing and I have to grow at the same pace that you do, and I don’t wanna…I don’t wanna be left behind because, you know, the people in my life, you know, who were investing in themselves, invested in themselves and I didn’t, and I stayed stuck and small while they got smarter and better.” Especially when that person’s your CEO and your wife. It was really important to me to find the money and I…and we had to work hard, like even for us. Coming up with an extra six figures in two months is a little bit of a challenge on top of all the other stuff I’ve gotta pay for. So, you know, certainly it cost us money, it cost us time to do it. But the distinctions we got from it were incredible. Now, this event that you’re coming to, it’s not $75,000. It’s a lot less than that. So certainly, some of the people you’re gonna be hanging out with though are the people that spend hundreds and thousands and millions of dollars on their personal development.
Leela: Yeah, I’d add to that, that for me the most heartening thing about, even in the last couple of weeks, about this whole festival is how much people externally are getting it. Like, they understand the concept. So, just in the last…it’s not even been a week, it’s like four days, we’ve confirmed as sponsors, Thankyou Water, Cheer Pods, the guys from Cheer Pods, and Cobs Popcorn, and on top of that it’s looking like for those who are VIPs who choose to come along on a VIP ticket, they get the third day. So for most guys for general admission the event’s the 10th and the 11th. On the 12th we’re doing what we call the creative inspiration day just for the VIPs. And one of the companies that’s come on board for that is Alura, who are an animation company.
They did… They do “Game of Thrones.” They do the animation for “Game of Thrones,” and for the movie “Ted” with Mark Wahlberg. And they’re actually opening their doors to us and allowing us to take VIPs in behind the scenes of their company, get to speak to their founder and their animators about the things that they’ve done to grow from a little Australian animation company into an international powerhouse that works on some of the top movies in the world. So there’s a couple of other companies as well coming on board, that kind of thing. So it’s just like it’s a very different event to anything that’s currently being run certainly in this country, but to my knowledge kind of pretty much anywhere in the world. And there’s a lot of like really big names that I think people will recognize who are coming on board and getting involved because they really see the value of it. So that to me is really exciting.
Gulliver: Yeah. Kim, honestly, for your people, this is not gonna be for everyone on your database. This is only gonna be for the top eight percent. And if you… And if you’re… no, even if you’re eight percent, if you are courageous, if you wanna change the world, disrupt, if you are excellent at what you do, if you’re an innovator, if you’re a, you know, a entrepreneur, if you are taking what you do to an art form, you don’t need me to convince you. If you aren’t convinced, don’t fucking come, because there’s gonna be a whole bunch of really super super cool, successful people who will be doing it, and I don’t need people in the room who aren’t 100 percent eight percent, if that makes sense.
Kim: Yeah, definitely. And I agree.
Gulliver: Only for the Kims of the world. Only for the best, you know? So if you’re the best, you don’t need me to tell you why you need to be in this room, it already sounds pretty exciting. If you’re umming and ahhing about it, miss out on it and watch everybody else have a good time because it’s gonna be fucking rad.
Kim: Yeah, it’s gonna be awesome. I’m hoping to be there. I will be there with a pretty solid crew of people. I’m trying to get a couple of my staff members that have been more creative and things as well, organise a time to come too. So it’s gonna be really, really good fun. So guys, if you haven’t already obviously like this is going to be epic. So like, this is the only reason why I did like, you know, I’ve luckily been able to get these guys to take half hour an hour out of their day to come and chat about this because I know how cool it’s gonna be. I’m gonna be there, I’m gonna be encouraging everyone I know to get there, and as I said like we’ve got a really good hookup from these guys because we work quite closely together so you guys… It’s already a steal at the price it is for everyone, but it’s like I’ve looked after you guys so if you are gonna come and check out a bit further down you’ll be able to see where you can get involved or you can shoot me a message and I can sort you guys out as well. But, I just want to really thank you guys. I appreciate you taking the time to share with me and everyone about what’s coming up for Eight Percent Festival and I am, yeah, I’m super excited and I just wanna, yeah, and thank you so much for spending the time to share with us about what you’ve got going on.
Leela: Thank you, man.
Gulliver: Awesome brother. Thanks for the opportunity to broaden our network through your community. We really appreciate your support and I’m really, I want to say, thank you so much and happy birthday dude.
Kim: Thank you.
Gulliver: Today is Kim’s birthday and so from that point of view man like, thank you for making time on your birthday to work hard and help us for our community. It speaks volumes about the kind of person you are and speaks to your character that you’d take time out and do that. And thank you so much.
Kim: You’re very welcome. Thanks so much guys, and look forward to seeing everyone at the festival.